Insight from Experts: The Roles of Sales and Marketing with Matt Heinz

Mark Nardone

Mark Nardone, executive vice president at PAN Communications, speaks with Matt Heinz, president and founder of Heinz Marketing. Matt is well respected within the marketing industry and is known for his success as an author, keynote speaker, repeat winner of the ‘Top 50 Most Influential People in Sales Lead Management,’ and listed among the ‘Top 50 Sales & Marketing Influencers.’

Read the transcript or watch the video below to learn more on the current transformation happening with sales and marketing teams, how advocacy and loyalty come into play and why you might want to change the way you look at MQLs and SQLs.

Mark Nardone: The Roles of Sales and Marketing

What happens when you have a legacy sales force that's just accustomed to doing one thing and only one thing, and you have a marketing department that is so advanced – leveraging data, looking at all the listening in and kind of analytics out there, and getting ahead of what that strategy is? I think it's a really hot topic to address because there's a lot of transformation happening in sales and marketing.

Matt Heinz on The Roles of Sales and Marketing

Rarely, if ever, do we see an organization where you've got marketing that advanced, and sales that traditional. Usually as marketing is increasing their level of sophistication, it's being done in an environment that is supporting that, not just at the marketing executive level. The company executive level is also looking at, OK sales – how are you stepping up to do this? I just don't think modern marketing works without sales being involved. If you've got a high level of sophistication and execution on marketing, then sales is at the table. If they're not, as a marketer, you can't do it.

Mark Nardone: The Roles of Sales and Marketing

Does that mean as advocacy and loyalty and the experience of the customer becomes more relevant in the funnel effort, and for now we don't have to think of funnel just based on presale – there's a lot of emphasis on funnel and engagement. Does that help sales trust marketing a little bit more because marketing is inherently looking at the customer far more strategically than it ever has?

Matt Heinz on The Roles of Sales and Marketing

We work with a lot of marketing organizations and their task of driving demand for sales, but we also work with a lot of sales organizations that are taking that demand and trying to bring it home. The majority of them you put in a safe room by themselves where they're not going to get quoted, they're like, “Yeah no, I’m still on my own man. I'm trying to close deals.” And most of those organizations are not compensated based on lifetime value or on best customer profile – they're compensated based on hitting this month's number. They'll talk about how they want the right customer and lifetime value and how they’re going to increase compensation for bringing on customers because we think they are the best profile. And that's all fine and good but that's not what the reps are compensated on either – they’re compensated for bringing on deals. There's still some work to be done there, but I love that you bring up lifetime value, because you know it reinforces the idea that not every customer is equal.

From a marketer’s standpoint, if we tell our marketers that you are tasked with generating marketing qualified leads, they will generate those by whatever means necessary. And they will optimize everything you're doing based on getting the most marketing qualified leads at the lowest average cost. Well not every lead is equal. Some leads are going to convert better than others. Some customers are going to stick around longer than others. If you understand, who are your best, longest, and most profitable customers, shouldn't you be willing to spend a lot more money to acquire them? Because you expect that they're going to stick around a lot longer and make you a lot more money. The answer should be yes. And yet if you're focused on a more tactical, early stage metric without looking at lifetime value, you're not allowing your marketing team to optimize for that.

Mark Nardone: The Roles of Sales and Marketing

Does that push the issue of redefining MQLs? Just based on the dynamic of how either the funnel is shifting, changing, or being impacted?

Matt Heinz on The Roles of Sales and Marketing

I think it probably changes the way you think about sales qualified leads, as opposed to marketing qualified leads. It just depends on how you define all these things – everyone’s got a different definition of what's a contact, what's an inquiry, what's an MQL, and what’s an SQL. To a certain extent I think about your newsletter, your blog, your ability to drive attention. The number that you want to engage on – that is a very large number, because if someone comes in and you don’t have to spend money to acquire them and they're willing to fall into the fishing net, fine, because you’ve spent that attention building awareness with them and it costs you no more to do it with them than a bunch of other people.

Then you start to say, OK, who is worth my marketing operations efforts triaging? Using Marketo’s example: you're going to spend money on Marketo based on how many people are in Marketo's database. I'm a B2B Marketing Consulting firm. We focus on mid-market B2B companies. There are companies outside of that, that are primarily B2B that we could do work for if they come to us, but we're not going to go out and pitch them. You're going to spend money with Marketo based on the size of your database, who is worth being in that database? If I'm going to have a sales person spend their finite time, there's an opportunity cost of them calling this prospect. I think many marketers will consider a MQL someone that fills out a form and that showed interest in their webinar.

As you start spending incremental dollars on your marketing and especially your sales, there is a higher opportunity cost of not focusing on the right people. It's important for marketers to think about that. Make sure you're making the best use of your time, and if you have to do that in a non-scalable way to start, that's fine. I realize that this is a process and a way of thinking that a lot of marketers haven't gotten into yet, so feel free to crawl and walk into this. But the goal is to create those processes systems and checkpoints, so this can scale for you moving forward.

Interested in learning more? Check out other sections from the conversation here:

What are your views on the roles and responsibilities of sales and marketing teams? Let’s continue the conversation @markcnardone.

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Topics: Thought Leadership

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